What is ING thinking?
I just got off the phone with ING after reading a few posts online (and noticing that my ING accounts were not updating) and I am confused at their stance on aggregating data. ING is taking that stance that no account aggregators will be allowed to connect to your ING account and download data, period. ONLY Microsoft Money (deceased) and Quicken (soon to be deceased) will be supported by ING for Personal Finance Management. I explained to the rep that I have been an ING customer since 2002 and have been using Yodlee since 2001 and thus have been using Yodlee to aggregate ING since 2002, so what changed their stance? They claim that security is their primary concern for their customers and by allowing a third party to connect would introduce security risks. I countered with two points. First, you are supporting a dead technology. MS Money is dead, Quicken (in its desktop format) will probably follow soon. And I would argue that there is just as much, if not more risk in keeping all your financial data local to your home computer. The question that I asked a few times to the rep was why would a company that used to be a visionary and forward thinker in banking choose to support a dead technology and drive away customers? Second point, if I enter my credentials into Yodlee, Thrive, Mint, or Wesabe, I am stating that I trust this third party PFM site and you should allow me (as the customer) to aggregate my data wherever I please.
After further discussion, I expressed my concern to the rep and stated that if this policy stands, I will have to move all my accounts from ING. My personal finance workflow depends on aggregation of data and if ING is going to prevent me from tracking, budgeting, alerting, and analyzing my transactions, then I will find a bank that will allow me to do these various tasks.
Last point I made to the rep was this: ING’s site has no features. No transactional budgeting, tracking, tagging, reporting, or alerting. Nada! If you are going to prevent others from aggregating data, they should look into modifying their site to enable these features ala Wesabe Springboard.
We shall see where this goes, hopefully ING changes their stance otherwise banks like Ally will start to see even more deposits coming their way.
I’m with you, Ryan, not just at the Lead Scientist at Thrive (www.justthrive.com), but on a personal level as well. My savings account is at ING, which no longer offers the competitive savings rates they once did, and I’ve called them before about their lack of support for Thrive. I managed to work my way fairly far up the food chain (though I did cheat a bit, by using my connection to Thrive to get me bumped past customer support) and the official word was “no PFM will be allowed to connect, ever.”
It is my money and my data, when it comes down to it. And under current law, at least as I understand it, I could legally require ING to provide me with a copy of all information that they have about me. Sure, they have the right to provide it in any format they wish and to take reasonable time to do it, but they still have to give me the data. So why not provide it in electronically, via automated means, in a format that Thrive and other PFM’s can use. After all, that would certainly be cheaper than dealing with me sending letter after letter asking for my data.
I made a commitment to ING when I first called them and said that I’d give them six months before changing banks. I’m about 15 days away from the drop dead date, and I’ve already made my secondary account plans (thank you, Thrive). Perhaps ING will jump in with a last minute save…but I’m not holding my breath.
There is the larger policy issue as well – wouldn’t you want to support your customers? Isn’t that the service you are providing, as a bank? It is easy to find a place that will keep my money safe and give it a reasonable rate of return: isn’t the whole point of a bank to do more than that, to help me manage it and service my financial needs as easily and conveniently as possible? I was quoted in the LA Times recently responding to a bank user who ran into some arbitrary international fees, and my viewpoint hasn’t changed: banks as social institutions, not just profit machines. This isn’t one of those “you used my tax bailout dollars so you should help me” problems…you should help me regardless. Because you are bank – that is what you’re supposed to do.
I’ve had various follow-ups with ING support in the past week about this, with every response ending the same: “Our position is that we do not recommend…” Well is this an ING guideline or a policy? If you’re recommending a position, then it would be a guideline and I can choose not to follow that position. However, at least in my view, this is an enforced policy by ING; to call it anything else would be a joke.
Now Matt, you hit is on the head, this is our money and our data. Who is ING to tell me what I should or should not do with my data? After reading various other blogs and posts about this topic, one person commented that after emailing the ombudsman, they received a call from ING Marketing explaining why they have taken this stance. ING Marketing? Not ING Information Security? That’s when I had an ah-ha moment. ING wants you on their site! They want you to view their Orange Electric and Home Mortgage adverts. If you are pulling all your data from a PFM, you’re never going to see those ads. They have no chance to up-sell you on some other product or service. Why else would ING having their marketing department call a concerned user? If that is the case, my bags are packed and I’m ready to move on.
As for my last reply to ING, here it goes:
“I would recommend that you read this thread. This is one of many discussions on the web right now:
https://www.wesabe.com/groups/3-make-wesabe-better/discussions/4081-form-letter-to-ing-lets-get-our-automatic-updates-back”
Customers are not happy about this change. I guess it will take some losses before ING works with the various PFMs to come up with an alternative (like an OFX server with a different set of credentials)
Bummer. my Thrive and mvelopes are still able to pull accurate info from my ingdirect though mint.com and moneystrands were unable. I called too and they gave the same answer: You can download to Money, Quicken & a spreadsheet. Welcome to 1999.
I guess I’ll keep using for now since Thrive/mvelopes seem to be getting through. Maybe ING will change its mind. If not and I lose the ability to use any aggregate sites, I’m following your example and leaving for something else.
Rick,
I too noticed that ING was working for the past week @ Thrive and Yodlee so I shot an email to ING wondering if they changed their policy and received the same canned response that while some sites may work now, that they value our security and are working to close the “loopholes”.